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Gwynasyn

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Gwynasyn last won the day on June 30 2015

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About Gwynasyn

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    Grumpy Asshole
  • Birthday 11/18/1986

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  1. Kessel to Pens

    ​ I don't understand it because it's wrong. The Pens GM out negotiated the Leafs on this, period. They can ask for it all they want, but the Leafs did not have to say yes to any of it. You've harped on about the risk they take keeping him for one more season. The likelihood of him having a second straight career worst year is far lower than the likelihood that they get anything truly substantial out of this trade to help the rebuild, which was supposed to be the point of the trade in the first place. It was bad logic, it was bad negotiation, it was bad cap management, and it was bad asset management... all those don't point to competent decision makers. What don't you understand about any of that?
  2. Kessel to Pens

    Okay, I've been outside and mowed the lawn, had some time to think and cool down. I'm generally mad at this trade, and here's why. I probably was overvaluing Kessel, but not but that I much. His salary was not bad. He's an elite offensive player with flaws that got paid like it. Truly elite players now get paid $10 million per year, Kessel was making two less than that. But, that's still 8 million that the Leafs don't need to be paying while rebuilding, so I understand there was a good reason to trade him. Going into it, I would want at the very least want the Pens best prospect (Pouliot) and a 1st from Pittsburgh, maybe some lesser picks and prospects. If the Leafs had to retain salary or take on a contract to get that, I'd have been fine. Pouliot addresses a big need: defense. And you know what? I would have also been a bit underwhelmed but understanding if the Leafs got Kapanen, a B+ prospect, and their 1st with no retained salary. Because we might not have gotten the optimal package back, but neither did we have to retain salary. So before I go any further, I want everyone to answer this question: would Kessel for Kapanen and their 1st round pick been a fair deal? Nevermind the other stuff, let's hypothetically say that's what the trade was. In that, we don't get their best prospect but we do get a good one, and their first. They get an elite scoring winger to help them contend NOW, and we don't retain salary. I still think the Leafs lost out on it, but I imagine everyone else here would think it's fair? But here's what gets me, and what is actually getting me mad: It's all the extra shit. We had to retail salary for 7 years. People might tell me "it's only 1.2 million", but I've heard that shit enough from the Leafs that I'm not buying it anymore. It's just 1.2 million here and there and then you can't afford to re-sign one of your young players or something. We gave them a 2nd round pick. We're rebuilding, that should be the main focus for the Leafs. Why in god's name are we trading away picks? It doesn't make any sense. Remember, it's not like we're getting an optimal package back by sending that pick. We're still just getting Kapanen, a 1st, and a bunch of meh. I mean we got that second round pick by trading them Winnik... it was a good, smart move by the Leafs going into a rebuild: get draft picks. Now we're throwing them away in the name of the rebuild? Doesn't make sense. We took Spaling back. A bottom 6 player. Limited upside, a warm body taking up cap and roster space for the rebuild. Doesn't make sense. We sent Erixon. A meh but useful NHL defenseman. We turned Holzer into a draft pick, we could have done the same with Erixon who is better. But no, we tacked him onto this deal too for some reason. Doesn't make sense. And to top it all off, there's that absolutely asinine condition placed on their 1st round pick. Why? Just why in god's name would you agree to that? There isn't even a good chance that they miss the playoffs this year, let alone two years in a row. It makes no sense for them to even ask for it, let alone us accept it. I mean, if the demanded that condition it kind of makes you wonder just how bad their team might be even with Kessel. If that's a genuine worry from the Pens, we should have told them to fuck off. That should not be a deal breaker. You cannot tell me that all that extra stuff was a sincere deal breaker for the Penguins. Not the retained salary, not the draft pick we sent, not Erixon who we sent, not the conditions we let them put on the 1st round pick. None of that makes any sense. I mean what was our main goal in trading Kessel? Some of you have said to help the rebuild, and get prospects and picks back. Some of you said to clear the cap space. Well... we did all of that in an extremely half assed way. We got rid of the salary, but retained a lot of it. We got a prospect and a pick, but sent a pick of our own back and they placed a condition the pick they sent us. Does anyone here ACTUALLY think that all of that extra stuff makes any god damned sense?
  3. Kessel to Pens

    But Milan Lucic is worth 2 first round picks? Robin Lehner is worth a first? You talk about risk, the Leafs just took a bigger risk with this trade. They traded Kessel at the bottom of his value, and still got less than they should have. Because we're not just talking about Kessel. We're talking about Erixon, $1.2 million per year, a condition on the first round pick, and OUR second round pick. So yeah, explain why it's good for us to be trading away any draft picks when we're doing a rebuild? But sure, let's say I'm overvaluing Kessel. Are you telling me that Kessel is worth a B prospect and a low first round pick? Because the Leafs actually got a lot less than that, even. I don't think you are fully appreciating just how stupid all these extra elements to the trade are. And even before they shot themselves in the foot. Not even trying Kessel with Kadri to up his trade value, shitting over him in public to lower it even further, letting the Carlyle gongshow play out as long as it did. It's poor asset management, and poor cap management. But he had a poor attitude or something. Unbelievable.
  4. Kessel to Pens

    So answer me this Kryl, why did the Leafs agree to that? What possible reason would they have agree to it? They already retained salary. They already threw in a second round pick. They already threw in a roster player. That first round pick was always going to be a central part of any Kessel trade. So why the fuck would they make a gamble, ANY GAMBLE AT ALL, that it winds up NOT being a first round pick? It's absolutely ludicrous fucking logic.
  5. Kessel to Pens

    From the Penguins site: http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=773319&navid=DL|PIT|home
  6. Kessel to Pens

    ​ As per Mirtle: If the Penguins don't make the playoffs this year, the pick is pushed to 2017. If the Penguins don't make the playoffs that year either, the pick becomes a second round pick in 2017.
  7. Kessel to Pens

    ​ It actually can, though. And it scares me that the Leafs were willing to agree to it. "Don't worry, I know the Leafs gave up a bunch of first round picks to get Kessel but they're a good team they won't be that high!" And so the cycle of the Leafs being the fucking Leafs keeps turning, and turning. Never fucking learning from the exact same fucking mistakes.
  8. Kessel to Pens

    Milan fucking Lucic got two first round picks for fuck's sakes. And he's in a walk year where he might not even re-sign. And is a far worse player. And the Bruins only had to retain salary for one season. ONE.
  9. Kessel to Pens

    ​ Remember when the Leafs cleared all that cap space by buying out Grabovski? Remember how I said it was stupid, how it was bad logic, how it was making a move for the sake of making it? And then the Leafs used that cap space by signing David Clarkson and pissing their cap room away on shit players on shit contracts and fucking their cap over for years? This is a sign of the exact same thing. You cannot make stupid little moves, because they add up. And I'm sorry, if you're saying you think this is a good trade just because you didn't like Kessel's 'attitude'... I'm not going to finish that sentence, but you probably know where it was going anyways.
  10. Kessel to Pens

    ​ Keeping a 30 goal, PPG player is not nothing. People seem to keep forgetting that.
  11. Kessel to Pens

    ​ All they had to do in that trade to make it decent was either not retain salary, or get Pouliot/another 1st round pick. That's it. But not only did they not get either, they also gave them a 1st round pick, retained the salary, gave them a roster player, and also allowed them to put conditions on their first round pick. So even if we could have lucked out, and they missed the playoffs to give us a higher pick and a shot at winning the lottery, those conditions now mean that we could potentially get their SECOND ROUND pick instead of their first. We bent over backwards for the Penguins in this deal, completely needlessly. I would have been happier if they just got Kapanen and a 1st for Kessel, no salary retained. We got all the B prospects from the team with arguably the worst farm system in the league. This was not a good trade. This is a sign of inexperienced or shoddy management. It's not just about the trade itself, it's about the logic and the thought process behind it. It's the same awful logic that was behind all those Nonis trades, where he kept throwing in an extra asset in, retaining more salary, giving up a third or fifth round pick when he just didn't need to. If Shannahan, Dubas, Hunter and co. are going to pull this kind of shit now, why should I expect them to be able to do better in the future? Not only does their rebuild not look as good as it should, but I'm not very enthusiastic about their chances to do a good rebuild from now on. Any team can tank and do bad. Nonis did it without even trying for fuck's sakes. Buffalo and Edmonton have been doing it for years, and look at how good they've been at getting out of it. Literally the only thing that will save Edmonton was winning a freak lottery and drafting a generational player. Well guess what, there isn't going to be another one of those in the pipelines for a while now, so the Leafs aren't going to have that save them.
  12. Kessel to Pens

    Guess what, I just don't see this really helping them make a Cup run. At all. Kapanen is a nice piece. If he reaches his ceiling, he still won't be as good as Kessel. It's also a 90% chance that whoever they draft in the first round doesn't wind up being a star either. The fact of the matter is that we had an elite, star player and the haul we got back did not give us a very good chance of getting one back. We were always going to lose the trade, you just always do when you trade an elite player. But you can get a better return than THAT. All because they felt they HAD to make that trade. They want to do a rebuild? Fine, I'm on board with that. But Kessel is your STAR player. He was the best chance to really cement a strong foundation for the rebuild, and they fucked it up. And to top it all off, we've hurt our long term cap AGAIN by retaining salary in a trade. AGAIN. It's not helping my perception of the management team. This reeks of inexperience.
  13. Kessel to Pens

    If no one offers you what Kessel is worth, you keep Kessel until they make an offer that does. If that means you hold onto him for a few more years until he declines due to age, THEN you make that trade. This deal makes sense only in that it's painfully obvious that the Leafs were going to trade him no matter what. That's bad asset management. They retained salary for 7 years. That's bad cap management. The bloom is off. I am now deeply worried that our new management team will not be any fucking different than the revolving door of failures that came before them. The deal is at the very least very underwhelming. We not only did not get that much for Kessel, we retained salary, gave them a pick, a defenseman who can play on their roster as well. There's a very good chance that Kapanen does no better than become a 2nd line winger who's career peak seasons are 20 goals and 60 points (so, Clarke MacArthur). There's a very, very good chance that Harrington never makes a meaningful impact at the NHL level. He's basically like Granberg, MacWilliam, or Holzer. There's also a very, very good chance that whoever the Leafs draft with the 1st round pick does not ever make the NHL either, due to being a late round pick. For the 5th best winger in the game for the past 5-6 years who is still in his prime. So it can very, very easily go from being just an underwhelming trade to a historically AWFUL trade. The more I think about this trade the madder I get. Fuck this fucking team.
  14. Kessel to Pens

    This was a pretty bad deal. The only assets worth anything compared to Kessel's value is Kapanen and the first overall pick. And their first is not likely to be a top 10 pick. Actually, it is impossible for it to be a top 10 pick because the condition placed on it by Pittsburgh is it's only a 1st round pick if the make the playoffs. The rest of the parts are meh to shit. Harrington is only a bit better than Erixon. He's 24 or something and can't fucking skate, he's probably Mark Fraser 2.0. Spaling is a bottom 6 guy you can find in your own system or on the scrap heap UFA pile for nothing. A 3rd round pick has maybe a 10-20% chance of being a decent NHLer. AND WE RETAINED SALARY AGAINST OUR CAP FOR SEVEN FUCKING YEARS AND GAVE UP A SECOND ROUND PICK OF OUR OWN! Meanwhile, Kessel goes from a shit team with a shit center to playing with Crosby or Malkin. He's going to put up much better points, because his true talent level and therefore his value has been obscured by playing on a shit team. And despite that he's still a top 5 forward in points in the past 5 years or something, and he won't face a significant decline for a few years. By some miracle, the Leafs let them keep their top prospect in Pouliot. It's a trade that realistically is bad, and could wind up being just hilariously awful.
  15. 2015 Leafs Offseason

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