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2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Thread

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5 hours ago, Mats said:

The fact of the matter is that Marner is a good winger but that doesn't mean he is going to get the biggest salary in the NHL. He has the potential to be an elite player but I would not classify him that yet.

What is your definition of elite or star?

Can we agree that Marner is one of the best 30 wingers in the NHL right now? I think he is already there. He’s probably in the top 15. Think about 2 years from now is he top 5?

He’s also not asking for the highest salary in the NHL. He’s asking for Matthews/Tavares money. 

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Doesn’t cost anything to ask. Maybe someone will offer it to him, but I doubt it.

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11 hours ago, Alex Giniw said:

What is your definition of elite or star?

Can we agree that Marner is one of the best 30 wingers in the NHL right now? I think he is already there. He’s probably in the top 15. Think about 2 years from now is he top 5?

He’s also not asking for the highest salary in the NHL. He’s asking for Matthews/Tavares money. 

If you list the best players currently in the NHL Marner would not crack top ten maybe not even top twenty.

Marner is my favourite player but I can take off my Leafs bias and see reality.

On the Leafs, I would rate him a close third with both Travares and Matthews slightly ahead of him.

So if the Leafs have offered 10 for 8, that is fair money.

Two years from now he COULD be top 10 or with the next crop of good players he COULD fall farther down the list.

But he is signing the contract now not then.

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11 hours ago, Alex Giniw said:

What is your definition of elite or star?

Can we agree that Marner is one of the best 30 wingers in the NHL right now? I think he is already there. He’s probably in the top 15. Think about 2 years from now is he top 5?

He’s also not asking for the highest salary in the NHL. He’s asking for Matthews/Tavares money. 

He's asking to be paid like a center.  What are the top few wingers paid?

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Is there a certain time period another team can offer sheet or could this drag out indefinitely?

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3 hours ago, Krylian said:

He's asking to be paid like a center.  What are the top few wingers paid?

8-11.5 million. Thanks to the Panarin contract. 

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5 minutes ago, Alex Giniw said:

8-11.5 million. Thanks to the Panarin contract. 

And Panarin is was a UFA, so there's a built in overpay there.

The point is, consider that he is an RFA, he is a winger, and compare to other top wingers around the league.  He should NOT be getting Auston Mathews money.  Auston Mathews probably shouldn't even be getting Auston Mathews money...but I think it's easier to make a case for him than for Mitch.

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Marner is no Panarin. 

The end result of all of this is Marner signing for like 9 for 3 years or something and everyone is happy overall. 

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1 hour ago, TMan said:

Is there a certain time period another team can offer sheet or could this drag out indefinitely?

He's a free agent. He could sign an offer sheet in December if wanted too.

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4 minutes ago, Ryan said:

He's a free agent. He could sign an offer sheet in December if wanted too.

I was afraid of that. But if one doesn’t come soon there probably isn’t one coming at all.

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1 minute ago, Ryan said:

He's a free agent. He could sign an offer sheet in December if wanted too.

Complicating all this is the longer he drags this on, the worse it is for the Leafs as their hands are tied.

If he wants to stay work on a deal that works.

BTW, $10M x 8 years is guaranteed. So at what twenty years old, invested wisely and using all the deferred income tax advantages out there, he will be a multi millionaire for life.

If he signs short term and suffers a concussion or two and his career ends, he is not as well off. Everyone talks about the advantage of signing a short term deal for an even bigger payout later but that works both ways.

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20 minutes ago, Mats said:

Complicating all this is the longer he drags this on, the worse it is for the Leafs as their hands are tied.

If he wants to stay work on a deal that works.

BTW, $10M x 8 years is guaranteed. So at what twenty years old, invested wisely and using all the deferred income tax advantages out there, he will be a multi millionaire for life.

If he signs short term and suffers a concussion or two and his career ends, he is not as well off. Everyone talks about the advantage of signing a short term deal for an even bigger payout later but that works both ways.

If he’s smart, he’ll have insurance against that sort of thing. 

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22 hours ago, Krylian said:

And Panarin is was a UFA, so there's a built in overpay there.

The point is, consider that he is an RFA, he is a winger, and compare to other top wingers around the league.  He should NOT be getting Auston Mathews money.  Auston Mathews probably shouldn't even be getting Auston Mathews money...but I think it's easier to make a case for him than for Mitch.

Sure in the old salary system you overpaid for UFAs. The young kids are fighting to be paid earlier. When tonnes of these UFAs aren't living up to their cap hits.

I agree that paying Matthews over 10 million was ill-advised. 

I'm wondering what you think the premium paid for a centre should be?

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4 minutes ago, Alex Giniw said:

Sure in the old salary system you overpaid for UFAs. The young kids are fighting to be paid earlier. When tonnes of these UFAs aren't living up to their cap hits.

I agree that paying Matthews over 10 million was ill-advised. 

I'm wondering what you think the premium paid for a centre should be?

It's hardly an exact science cause comparing one position to another is hard, however, if you forced me to put a number on it...I'd say that if you take a center and a winger that are very comparable as to what they can do for you offensively, are there aren't any egregious deficiencies (skating, complete lack of any defensive awareness) then I think a center is perhaps 10% more valuable financially.  The extra responsibilities defensively and the faceoff responsibilities are the first two things to come to mind.

In Mitch's case, yes, he did penalty kill...but the Leafs PK was pretty awful last season.  Was that his fault?  I can't say...as I don't have the data in front of me...maybe it wasn't at all...but he is going to get lumped into that bad PK just by association.

I still think he should fall into the $9-9.5 AAV on a 3 year.  If he wants $10m+ then we're talking 6+ years.

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14 minutes ago, Krylian said:

It's hardly an exact science cause comparing one position to another is hard, however, if you forced me to put a number on it...I'd say that if you take a center and a winger that are very comparable as to what they can do for you offensively, are there aren't any egregious deficiencies (skating, complete lack of any defensive awareness) then I think a center is perhaps 10% more valuable financially.  The extra responsibilities defensively and the faceoff responsibilities are the first two things to come to mind.

In Mitch's case, yes, he did penalty kill...but the Leafs PK was pretty awful last season.  Was that his fault?  I can't say...as I don't have the data in front of me...maybe it wasn't at all...but he is going to get lumped into that bad PK just by association.

I still think he should fall into the $9-9.5 AAV on a 3 year.  If he wants $10m+ then we're talking 6+ years.

I think Marner and Matthews are of equal value adjusted for positions, then let's look at that.

If we took Matthews as his salary comparable and adjusted down for being a winger that would be $ 10.44 million per year for Marner on a 5 year term. Since Auston took 5 years.

 

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Speculation that Marner will be offeres a 12.5 mil offer sheet by the Islanders.

2 things: 1 - lol wtf? 

2 - Take the picks, sign Gardiner. Easy game. 

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Until something actually happens I don't think we'll see an offer sheet.  committing that much cap space and giving up four 1sts is a very big move...and I'm not sure a smart one.  For $12.5M, I'd take the picks, use the cap space somewhere else, use the firsts, or some of the firsts to find a replacement for Mitch.

 

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3 hours ago, Krylian said:

Until something actually happens I don't think we'll see an offer sheet.  committing that much cap space and giving up four 1sts is a very big move...and I'm not sure a smart one.  For $12.5M, I'd take the picks, use the cap space somewhere else, use the firsts, or some of the firsts to find a replacement for Mitch.

 

In no world is giving up 4 first round picks and $12.5M in cap space for Marner a good hockey move.

It's a Hollywood move.

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Senile ol Lou just might  be silly enough to try it? Payback for snatching Tavares. Mitch’s buddy Matt Martin is there. I call bullshit for now as well but if it happens then so long Mitch. Languish in obscurity on the island.

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12 hours ago, TMan said:

Senile ol Lou just might  be silly enough to try it? Payback for snatching Tavares. Mitch’s buddy Matt Martin is there. I call bullshit for now as well but if it happens then so long Mitch. Languish in obscurity on the island.

If he's gonna let emotion dictate something like this I hope he does it.  That can only hurt the Isles and benefit the Leafs.

Edited by Krylian

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The longer this drags out the more I think were better off with four first rounders.

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Lou is the master of a secret......no rumour would make it out with him.

Slow hockey news day so lets pass a rumour started by a reporter.

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Well, even Friedge was reporting it. Generally if it's coming out of him then there is something to it. 

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