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Bret

2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Thread

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LOL.  $13-14M AAV for 4/5 years?

If I'm Dubas I say, "that's a great deal, Mitch.  You should sign it and we'll see if we feel like matching or not."

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On 2019-06-25 at 7:21 PM, Bret said:

People said this same stuff about Crosby and Malkin's contracts. Then they won a bunch of cups.

Same with Kane and Toews.

Notice how you named pairs of players and not trios.

Our duo should have been Matthews and Marner. We may have messed that up by splurging on Tavares. JT is great but I just don’t see how you have three 11 million players and have skill spread throughout the rest of the lineup long term.

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Who is holding the panic button? Take the batteries out plz 

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3 hours ago, Alex Giniw said:

Notice how you named pairs of players and not trios.

Our duo should have been Matthews and Marner. We may have messed that up by splurging on Tavares. JT is great but I just don’t see how you have three 11 million players and have skill spread throughout the rest of the lineup long term.

Those pairs of players are why they won the cup. Pairs and a bunch of nobodies after that. 

I'd rather have a trio of the best players in the league and then a bunch of nobodies. 

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8 hours ago, Check Your Sources said:

It can be done if Dubas drafts smart enough. Which I think he has the ability to. 

Much harder without any firsts

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The two "spent" firsts got us Muzz and allow us to keep Kap and Johnsson maybe more of our free agents.

I like Muzz for a first, solid D and Kap is good insurance if Marner bolts. If the cost is two first without any idea who they might be or where the selection will be, I guess that is the cost and risk I would take. Kap is tradable and so are others.

Edited by Mats
error

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31 minutes ago, Mats said:

The two "spent" firsts got us Muzz and allow us to keep Kap and Johnsson maybe more of our free agents.

I like Muzz for a first, solid D and Kap is good insurance if Marner bolts. If the cost is two first without any idea who they might be or where the selection will be, I guess that is the cost and risk I would take. Kap is tradable and so are others.

 

I understand what, but I'm saying if you're going to rely heavily on replenishing your roster with cheap talent you've developed it's going to be increasingly hard unless you have a steady flow of 1st rounders.  Sure, you can hit on other picks, but the deeper into the draft you go, the harder it is to hit...I don't think this is a revelation to anyone.  There will always be reasons to flip a 1st for an asset here or there, like what they've done. 

Just to be clear, I agree with both deals...Muzzin is a very good add and our options were very limited with Marleau and really had very little choice.

Muzzin's a UFA after this season...Horton's LTIR expires after this season so that crutch is done financially...there will always be roster and cap challenges and you can't keep throwing 1st round picks at it.  Well...I guess you can, but "Draft Shmaft" killed us for years.  I just hope that Dubas finds a way around these challenges for at least a couple of years after 2020 as we're going to need kids...talented kids...that can step up when Rielly, Mathews, Nylander, Marner (hopefully) get close to UFA.

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3 minutes ago, Krylian said:

 

I understand what, but I'm saying if you're going to rely heavily on replenishing your roster with cheap talent you've developed it's going to be increasingly hard unless you have a steady flow of 1st rounders.  Sure, you can hit on other picks, but the deeper into the draft you go, the harder it is to hit...I don't think this is a revelation to anyone.  There will always be reasons to flip a 1st for an asset here or there, like what they've done. 

Just to be clear, I agree with both deals...Muzzin is a very good add and our options were very limited with Marleau and really had very little choice.

Muzzin's a UFA after this season...Horton's LTIR expires after this season so that crutch is done financially...there will always be roster and cap challenges and you can't keep throwing 1st round picks at it.  Well...I guess you can, but "Draft Shmaft" killed us for years.  I just hope that Dubas finds a way around these challenges for at least a couple of years after 2020 as we're going to need kids...talented kids...that can step up when Rielly, Mathews, Nylander, Marner (hopefully) get close to UFA.

I guess another option is to replenish the first rounders, hopefully higher picks, through the trade of other assets.

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33 minutes ago, shovhd said:

I guess another option is to replenish the first rounders, hopefully higher picks, through the trade of other assets.

That would be great...except you'll need a surplus of said assets first.

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The Leafs stocked the farm club with excellent assets and then really worked with them to get to their potential. Too bad so many are due for a raise at the same time.

BTW, I think, Kap, Brown or Jon could be on the move yet this year along with a few others.

The build is not done but I am confident with the people we have in charge.

Lets see how this plays out.

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15 minutes ago, Krylian said:

That would be great...except you'll need a surplus of said assets first.

Nylander,  Zaitzev, Brown and/or a combo of minor assets. I'm just saying that if there is a will to replenish 1st picks it can be done.

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1 hour ago, Krylian said:

Sure, you can hit on other picks, but the deeper into the draft you go, the harder it is to hit...I don't think this is a revelation to anyone.  

There is actually a lot of data to show that after the late first round there is a massive, massive drop off and the quality remains nearly equal throughout the draft. 

You coukd theoretically stockpile picks in the last 2 rounds and have the same, if not more successful players make the NHL because of it. 

Obviously the first round gives you the best shot at getting a difference maker, but if that's not an option just stockpile late picks.

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11 hours ago, Bret said:

Those pairs of players are why they won the cup. Pairs and a bunch of nobodies after that. 

I'd rather have a trio of the best players in the league and then a bunch of nobodies. 

Um, that's not entirely true. I get where you are coming from but I think we should study the evidence a bit.

The 2016-17 Penguins win had Crosby/Malkin making Matthews/Marner money of course but then it had Kessel on a Nylander like contract. There wasn't a 3rd person making over 9 million $. Many of their so called nobodies turned out to be somebodies and had to be traded. Patrick Hornquist and Chris Kunitz has decent seasons and made bank off of riding shotgun. 

As for the 2013/2015 Blackhawks their last win involved Hossa and Sharp on decent contracts well below Tavares levels. Those players weren't nobodies. They were just from tiers below superstars. Below that tier you had cheap costing Bickell, Shaw, and Saad providing more offence. They also previously had to move out decent top 6 players in Ladd and big Buff (who was playing forward a lot at the time).  

What I see is teams maximizing but also balancing their talent and cap space in multiple tiers of their forward and defence rosters. It's not all about Tier 1 talent. They can only play so much of the game. I guess the point is this isn't EA Sports NHL where you can only play your best line and turn off the stamina/fatigue function to eliminate line changes. Someone else needs to win the other 2/3rds of the game when the first line isn't on the ice.

Imagine it like this. What you are saying at worst is like we are going to try so hard in the first period all we are going to have left for period two and three is replacement level forwards plus Nylander. At best it is saying period three will be only replacement level forwards.

 

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Well, no, because the drafting and development and reclamation projects fill out your roster. If you consistently get above monetary value out of players and then have to dish them off and replace them, you're succeeding. It's exactly what Pittsburgh and Chicago did. The Leafs have shown that in the last couple of years they can do that, too. 

In the long run, if you're comfortable getting value out of fringe contracts you should be locking up the contracts that are as close to a "sure thing" as you can get. I get what you're saying, but the "replacement level guys" shouldn't be replacement level guys if you do your job right in management and development. 

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Hutch extended. 1 year, 1 way. 700k.

Hutch vs. Sparks for backup role out of camp. Oof. 

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If Freddie dies, the team dies with him.

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Is there a rule that says only one player is allowed to wear goalie equipment? We could just stack three people in net. :P

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23 minutes ago, eMc said:

Is there a rule that says only one player is allowed to wear goalie equipment? We could just stack three people in net. :P

Remember that old McDonald's commercial with like 20 goalies against Gretzky? There'd still be a lot of that with this defence. 

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Hutchinson and Marincin signed to 1 year contracts.

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Rumours of a Toronto - Ottawa trade involving Nikita Zaitsev and Cody Ceci.

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Dave Hakstol hired as assistant coach. 

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Look for a few of these scrap heap signings this offseason.

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