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2019/20 Toronto Maple Leafs

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53 minutes ago, Ryan said:

Andersen returns tonight.

Hutch on waivers.

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Campbell plays tomorrow against Ottawa. Andersen Sunday against Buffalo.

Rielly targetting late March for a return.

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Speculation that Muzzin would be 5.5 x 4 years. Please, for the love of God, don't give a 31 year old defenceman 4 years. 

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2 hours ago, Bret said:

Speculation that Muzzin would be 5.5 x 4 years. Please, for the love of God, don't give a 31 year old defenceman 4 years. 

You're not getting him done for 3.  He'll get at least 5 on the open market 

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Anyone decent coming up UFA?

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15 minutes ago, chesterblue said:

Anyone decent coming up UFA?

Alex Pietrangelo.
 

It drops off precipitously from there. 

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2 hours ago, Krylian said:

You're not getting him done for 3.  He'll get at least 5 on the open market 

So let someone else shoot themselves in the foot. 

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2 minutes ago, Bret said:

So let someone else shoot themselves in the foot. 

And that's fine.  Who do you they could get to replace him with if that's the case?

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1 hour ago, Krylian said:

And that's fine.  Who do you they could get to replace him with if that's the case?

Replace 2020 Muzzin or 2024 Muzzin when you're saddled with the contract? Because despite those being 2 different players, it's one contract. 

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11 minutes ago, Bret said:

Replace 2020 Muzzin or 2024 Muzzin when you're saddled with the contract? Because despite those being 2 different players, it's one contract. 

I'm saying, he's a UFA, if he walks, who gives you the steady 20-22 minutes a night for the next few years

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1 hour ago, Krylian said:

I'm saying, he's a UFA, if he walks, who gives you the steady 20-22 minutes a night for the next few years

I know what you're saying. I'm saying is it worth it to have Muzzin there next year and then also have him 3 more years down the road. Is it worth it?

If you sign him for 4 years you are either stuck with a D man whose body is failing him at the tail end of his career, or you're paying a price to offload the deal at some point.

To me, I just don't see a reason to put your team in that situation. I guess I'd let him walk and hope Sandin fills those minutes. 

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If he doesn't the defense is probably even worse next year than it is this year.

Unless they go all in on Pietrangelo. But the 7 years it'll cost to get him will leave you in the same spot at the end.

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Why are people ruling out giving Sandin more minutes? Or at least trying Liljegren in a non-desperate situation? Dermott hasn't really improved over last year, but there is still time. Holl is playing like 24 minutes a night in Morgan's absence, and he's playing well.

I guess I'm in a bit of a minority where I don't think the Leafs D is as bad as people think it is. They've been top half of the league in preventing chances over the last 20 games or something, but 30th in goaltending. To me that doesn't seem like much of a defence problem versus awful goaltending. 

If the Leafs start getting saves again they'll be fine. That's not to say that they don't need to maybe get defence for next year, but they don't need to sign a dinosaur for too long of a contract. 

Edited by Bret

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23 minutes ago, Bret said:

Why are people ruling out giving Sandin more minutes? Or at least trying Liljegren in a non-desperate situation? Dermott hasn't really improved over last year, but there is still time. Holl is playing like 24 minutes a night in Morgan's absence, and he's playing well.

I guess I'm in a bit of a minority where I don't think the Leafs D is as bad as people think it is. They've been top half of the league in preventing chances over the last 20 games or something, but 30th in goaltending. To me that doesn't seem like much of a defence problem versus awful goaltending. 

If the Leafs start getting saves again they'll be fine. That's not to say that they don't need to maybe get defence for next year, but they don't need to sign a dinosaur for too long of a contract. 

You need Sandin to give you more minutes even if Muzzin stays.  He's not the replacement.  You already need a lot from him next season.  A new body needs to be brought in to make a significant impact.

You might not think the D is that bad, but there's no way you can spin them being good enough to be a serious contender.

Edited by Krylian

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Arguing wether the D is good enough to win this year seems somewhat futile when the only month the Leafs save percentage has been above 900 was November.

Maybe if they were getting even league average goaltending we could see what they really were, but they aren't so we won't.

A team full of Norris winners can't do anything for you if your goalie lets in one of every nine shots. 

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10 hours ago, Bret said:

Arguing wether the D is good enough to win this year seems somewhat futile when the only month the Leafs save percentage has been above 900 was November.

Maybe if they were getting even league average goaltending we could see what they really were, but they aren't so we won't.

A team full of Norris winners can't do anything for you if your goalie lets in one of every nine shots. 

I don't need George Vezina in net to see that the number of high quality scoring chances that are being surrendered are not conducive to a winning formula.  D-Men being caught out of position or looking like lost sheep isn't the goaltenders fault.

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1 hour ago, Krylian said:

I don't need George Vezina in net to see that the number of high quality scoring chances that are being surrendered are not conducive to a winning formula.  D-Men being caught out of position or looking like lost sheep isn't the goaltenders fault.

But that's the point. There aren't high numbers of scoring chances being surrendered. They're top half of the league and Muzzin was out for some of that, Reilly is currently out, and Ceci was on the ice for a lot of that.

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The Leafs have been terrible in February. They have played mostly bottom-tier teams and only have ONE regulation win. Their upcoming schedule is ridiculous. Aside from playing every other day for the next two weeks, they have to play Pittsburgh (twice), Carolina, Tampa, Florida, and Vancouver.  They really could have used some points against the weaker teams.

 

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When was the last time Freddie won a game? He hasn’t given us good goaltending in months. Hutch was terrible. Campbell is actually winning some.

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The Leafs have the 4th best points percent in the NHL since Keefe took over.

Tampa and Boston are 2 of the 3 teams ahead of them.

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2 hours ago, Bret said:

The Leafs have the 4th best points percent in the NHL since Keefe took over.

Tampa and Boston are 2 of the 3 teams ahead of them.

They were 15-4-1 when Keefe got here.

They've been 7-7-3 since that hot start.

Yea...I can cherry pick too.

They haven't looked good in a good 5-6 weeks.

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I'm not saying they have, but it's not as bad as the world ending.

The whole argument of "look at other teams who have won and how their D looks" hold less water with me than looking at their goalies. Teams don't win with bad goalies.

I know you guys don't believe in analytics for some reason, but last night aside they've been top half of the league at defence. I'm not gonna rehash it, I've already said it. It boils down to them not being able to get a save. 

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10 hours ago, Bret said:

I'm not saying they have, but it's not as bad as the world ending.

The whole argument of "look at other teams who have won and how their D looks" hold less water with me than looking at their goalies. Teams don't win with bad goalies.

I know you guys don't believe in analytics for some reason, but last night aside they've been top half of the league at defence. I'm not gonna rehash it, I've already said it. It boils down to them not being able to get a save. 

Who doesn't believe in analytics? Nobody is denying that the goaltending has been shit. However, the analytics also show that the defense is pretty shit.

I think it's also worth restating that the Leafs have been playing a LOT of lower-tier teams since Keefe came in. They haven't had to play Boston or Tampa. They haven't played Washington or Pittsburgh. They've played a couple of decent teams, both mostly bottom-tier teams. 

Also, the Leafs are basically leading the league in man-games lost. So injuries have been a huge issue.

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